Musician Joe Tohonnie Jr. shares his journey

(Editor’s note: This is the third installment of Ariana’s music blog series. You can read the introduction about Grammy-nominated Hawaiian Swing band Kahulanui and the second in the series, Idle No More – the movement and the music on the blog.)

This past fall, the Grammy Awards nominated Joe Tohonnie Jr. for his album, “Apache Blessing & Crown Dance Songs.” I had the opportunity to talk with him about his life as a musician.

Q: You received news of your first Grammy nomination this past fall. I read that you were really surprised to learn that you’d been nominated. Did you ever expect that type of recognition?

A: It was something that came out of the blue. It was a big, big surprise for me. It was a big surprise. It was an uncle of mine that called me. It was nine years in the making — nine years of singing and trying to put my music out there and represent my tribe here, White Mountain Apache. And I’m half Navajo.  It’s one of my biggest accomplishments. It was a blessing to receive something like this. I’m the only one from White Mountain who has been nominated on the traditional side. To this day, it really hasn’t sunk in yet.

Q: Was there a particular artist who you were excited to meet at the Grammys?

A: It was something very new. I had to present myself in a different way because these were a lot of big producers I met and big artists I’ve met and wanted to work with, and I had the opportunity to do that. I was in such surprise that I got to meet people like this. They’re just normal like anyone else. Once I got to meet them they were just down-to-earth people. People told me, “Grammy nomination is a big thing to accomplish whether you win or not.” I keep it to myself, but I am very proud of it. I don’t want to be like some artists with their head in the air. I’m happy to have what I have with my family.

I don’t have a favorite artist because I listen to all types of music. I just really listen to every artist. I got to see Metallica, but I’m also listening to R&B, hip-hop, rap — I listen to that. I’m into country. I listen to everything.  I try to put my heart into something where I’m trying to present a new style of music. I listen to classical; I listen to opera. I try to turn songs into a traditional style.

Q: Joe has been a prolific independent recording artist. Our conversation turned to his relationship with Cool Runnings, the label that produced his nominated album.

A: Believe it or not, I have 23 or 24 albums out now. When I got to work with Cool Runnings, there was no guarantee at all. Going to the Grammys, It wasn’t something that we expected. It took us one year to get it going. I believe it was in 2011 in October when I actually made up my mind to come to his studio, and I got in the studio in January, and said, “I want to do it how I want to do it.” He kind of gave me the freedom of how I wanted to do this album. I tried with other labels out there, but it never did work. I did try to work with them, but a lot of that was their ideas, they wanted to put their ideas into it.

Q: How did you get started as a musician?

A: Through our traditional way — it was my grandfather. It was sort of forced upon me. I was only 6 years old at the time. I remember it very well. He came to me first, and being young at the time I said no. I saw my cousins and uncles who were a part of this tradition say no, and he came back to me and said “I’m just going to pick you, and you are going to carry this tradition on for our tradition.” I didn’t want it, but I’m glad I did, that he did it. We went through a four-day ceremony.

When I was 6 years old, I did sing for about two years, and then it slowed down. And then I really started singing when I was about 14.

The recording part didn’t really come in until about 2001. Just watching awards shows on TV — the Country Music Awards and whatnot.  I used to say, “One of these days I’ll be on one of these awards shows.” I was just teasing my family.

2002 came around — the Salt Lake City Olympics, and they wanted my Apache dancers to come up there. I was only 21-years-old and singing, and they said I sounded like an elder. I got a lot of good feedback at the performance at the ethnic village at Discovery Navajo. I got a lot of good feedback from Native Americans and non-Natives. And people from other countries, they asked if I had an album, “You should put an album out.”

It didn’t really hit me until the fall of 2002, that’s when I decided to make my first album. From there I started making CDs, I was just an independent artist. More people asked me when my new album was coming out. I would make two to three per year because people were demanding it.

Q: What motivates you as a musician? 

A: I wasn’t looking at making any money at all. I was just trying to get my music out there. When I do shows, I don’t really sell, I usually give them away. The fan base I have, the majority of them are in the Navajo nation. There’s  a lot of youth out there who really look up to me. They say, “I just want to sound like you.” I tell them, “You have your own style.  You have to find it. You can’t just want to sound like me. You’ll find it.” They ask why I give CDs away — yeah, I do, but they’re the ones who make that living for me. I have to give back to them. I also do a lot of blessings and prayers regarding healings and songs for people who are feeling sad. I get good feedback from people who have listened to the CD saying it helped them.

My nephews look up to me for that. They say, “Let’s keep doing this for the people.” We have a lot of followers who will travel distances, and we are really surprised they followed us. I go on Facebook and give prayers and people ask, “Can you give me a blessing?” I do my best to give people my prayer and blessing and do the best to give them what they want.

Q: One song that really stood out to me, but is not on the most recent album, is “Bird Song.” Can you talk a little bit about that song? 

A: I heard that when I was just a little boy, and I would sing it every now and then. Then one day when I was going to do a recording that came into my head and I thought, “I have to figure out where it came from.”

There’s this group I ran into in California, and I asked them, “What is this song about?” “Well, it came from us,” they told me (I can’t remember the tribe) and I talked with a few of the elders and asked if I could do that song, and they asked me how I would do it. I said with a water drum and rattle. They said that would be fine and they were comfortable, so long as it was in a traditional style.

Everybody, I have so many people out there — that’s the first thing they say. Everywhere I travel, everywhere I do a show it never fails, I have to do that song. I have sung that so many times, I’ve done it over and over. I tell them I want to hear them sing it. It’s an uplifting song, I respect that song a lot. I put my heart and soul into doing that song. That’s the main song that everybody loves.

The main song I did with the Grammys that got me into being nominated was “Amazing Grace.” It was a blessing song from the heart. I put meaning in it for myself and my Creator above. That’s what it’s for: to throw that blessing out, to let them know, you’re not alone. There’s someone out there who will bless you and guide you. I got a lot of good feedback from doing that song.

Q: How did you begin performing with the Apache Crown Dancers?

A: All of the dancers are my nephews, and my son is now a part of the group, and he’s only 7 years old. Every weekend we’re on the road. Before we were all here in our hometown. Now they all work in a different area, so I have to call them up: Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona. My boys take this seriously. I use all my family because I trust them.

Here we have a lot of different Crown Dance groups, and we’re all taught differently, and we all have our own way that we’re taught from our grandfathers. So what we were taught from our grandfather is what I teach my boys. So I try to keep it more a family thing because of trust. I’m more afraid of others misusing our ways.

We don’t call our show a performance or entertainment. We look at it as a real ceremony. I tell the boys, when you’re out there, just pray. In my group we don’t practice or choreograph. I don’t believe in that. I don’t believe in practicing for things like that. We go with what we go with. There’s no way we’re going to practice ever. I’m proud of them.

Q: How are your children involved?

A: Right now I have a son who is 7 and a daughter who is 14 and a small daughter who is 1. I mainly do this for them. And as we travel I let them travel with me, and I let them see what I do. When I went to the Grammys, I went out with them. My oldest daughter, from everything I’ve done, that was a highlight for her. She got to meet so many people she wanted to meet. Just this Wednesday, we did a performance for Evander Holyfield in Albuquerque. He was doing charity events, and he called us and told us he wanted to be a part of it, and I accepted. He thanked me and gave us an opportunity to talk with him.

Q: Tell us more about your cultural background.

A: Now, the hardest thing is it’s hard to balance out White Mountain Apache and Navajo cultures. There are a lot of no-nos on both sides, and it’s hard to listen. It’s not easy for me.

There are a lot of people who say mean, disrespectful things just because my last name is Tohonnie (a Navajo name). I would speak back to them in Apache and say that “This is my home.” Not easy to explain to the person who is arguing with me.

In the end I will talk back so nice and say that if you go to each and every Apache Nation — Mescalero, Fort McDowell, etc. If you look at each and every tribe, every one of us is different. I’m White Mountain Apache, I was taught by my grandfather. Everyone was taught differently.

That’s how it is, and I wish you could understand. I try not to let it get to me, but it’s always there. I see how much hate they have. I’ll always walk up to them and shake their hand and say, “How are you.” That’s how I was taught.

My grandfather said, “You may have enemies but always show them respect. Show them who you are.” Shaking the hand of the enemy is a powerful thing.

Every morning I would pray and do a blessing in my mind and sometimes listen to my own music. I’m just like everyone else. I would take a drive and try to picture someone out there listening to my song. It’s a nice feeling when I come home knowing that’s how they hear my music. I’m happy and very proud of what I do. I hope one of my children can carry on this tradition.